Siri formation in full in OJP 2.0 #328

ue71603 · 2023-03-03T20:38:39Z

Technically simple, the explanation of the usage more difficult. We need a chapter on VehicleFeatureRef in OJP.

Includes VehicleFeatureREf
Includes Formation on journey level
Includes Formation on arrival and departure

Another problem that would need to be addressed is that the Quay information in OJP is only textual. Perhaps we should switch this too. (separate PR then).
A lot of explanation in the documentation is needed, to not do overkill. The reason to use SIRI:
I had today a discussion with Adrian. We believe that the SIRI 2.1 formation should be used. We may in the documentation show, how to use it in a simplified form (only some elements to be filled in). However:

It is the format for Transmodel
For accessibility complex things might be necessary.
GTFS RT formation extension is no better in the end.
When this is agreed, I will copy things from the CEN SIRI European profile draft (information from Adrian).

For non-train SIRI proposes the usage of VehicleFeatureRef. We don't have that neither in OJP.

Continues the discussion from: #269

It does not validate until we have SIRI 2.1 referenced in our project.

ue71603 · 2023-03-10T12:47:59Z

We need parameters in the request. Trigger what happens. Only in Trip Refinement and not Trip.
Only TripRefinement and TripInformation.

Malte: Subpart better. At least in specification.
Christophe: Info from rail. Avoid having it here, but use SIRI. The reality is complex not the structure.

ue71603 · 2023-03-10T12:48:50Z

Norman: Checking consistency might be a problem.

ue71603 · 2023-03-10T13:37:04Z

Only TripInformation.

ue71603 · 2023-03-14T12:26:39Z

Examples will be taken from the Swiss realisation guide v 0.9

ue71603 · 2023-03-16T20:16:55Z

Added formation now in fully. I know that we wanted it only on TripInformation and there the filter is. However: As it is part of the regular structure, it would be possible to add formation also on Trips and StopEvent

It would be a big pain to take it out (splitting the whole DatedVehicleJourney structure). Would you agree we tell people. You may do it here, but you should not. Do it only in TripInformation?

ue71603 · 2023-03-16T20:17:35Z

@herlitze @normanoffel @Aurige @sgrossberndt @skinkie : Heavy weight stuff ready for your consideration....

ue71603 · 2023-03-16T21:56:45Z

description in spec in 5.3.4, 5.4.6, 7 (some sections and very briefly), 8.8.1

herlitze · 2023-03-22T14:29:30Z

description in spec in 5.3.4, 5.4.6, 7 (some sections and very briefly), 8.8.1

The description added is hinting in the right direction, but there is no restriction to a less complex part of the SIRI model. You write that the full model is needed for accessibility, are you sure about that? Would it be possible to only allow a list of TrainElements instead of the JourneyFormationGroup including Trains and CompoundTrains as well?

ue71603 · 2023-03-22T15:14:52Z

@herlitze We could mention that one should stick to the SIRI European profile? Technically: How should I restrict it? Or is a textual limitation enough?

herlitze · 2023-03-22T15:50:33Z

@ue71603 Instead of using siri:JourneyFormationGroup we could use the Type of TrainElements.

ue71603 · 2023-03-23T09:36:50Z

@ue71603 Instead of using siri:JourneyFormationGroup we could use the Type of TrainElements.

Can't follow you. Perhaps more than a single sentence is needed to explain what you mean.

herlitze · 2023-03-23T11:42:43Z

In the last of your 3 screenshots you added the element <xs:group ref="siri:JourneyFormationGroup"> to DatedJourneyStructure. Instead of this we could add only TrainElementStructure (the subelement of JourneyFormationGroup) directly:

ue71603 · 2023-03-31T11:43:20Z

Search for use cases.
UC1: present the train as it is (like it is in thedocumentation)
UC2: Accessibility vehicle
UC3: Accessibility vehicle-stop interaction
Either we find something that makes it necessary or skip.

ue71603 · 2023-04-04T18:58:46Z

@herlitze @normanoffel @haeckerbaer @Aurige
We only can remove Trains and TrainElements from the JourneyFormationGroup, when we have the physical TrainElements and Trains always in CompundTrains. However, not all Trains are CompoundTrains.
We could certainly agree that TrainElements and Trains can only be directly added to the JourneyFormationGroup and are always referenced. TrainElements alone are not expressive enough, Especially the order of the carriages is in Trains (as TrainComponents that contain a TrainElement) and not in TrainElements.

The restrictions that you want we could do by refering to the European profile for SIRI, that hopefully puts some restrictions on the way formations are modeled.

Examples: For this we need (in my opinion, pls @haeckerbaer correct me, if necessary) Trains, TrainComponents and TrainElements:

Here too:

For this we probably would need CompoundTrains:

(to express that one can't move from one Train to the other)

herlitze · 2023-04-11T11:31:50Z

@ue71603 you are right, TrainElements only is not enough. Would Traincomponents be sufficient?

herlitze · 2023-04-11T11:52:19Z

@ue71603 I did not find the information of the sectors:

Can you give me a hint where to find them?

ue71603 · 2023-04-11T11:52:49Z

@herlitze I think you need all. See what the structure means.

ue71603 · 2023-04-11T12:25:59Z

@herlitze
DatedJourneyGroup contains JourneyFormationGroup. There all relevant information is stored.

The assignment occurs in the ServiceDeaprtureStructure / where the DepartureFormationAssignment exists. We were a bit lazy there, because we also could use a ArrivalFormationAssignment, but we skipped that for now. So I tried to minimize...

The relevant information about the sectors is part of the DepartureFormationAssignment.

And this brought about one mistake. I need an unbounded amount of DepartureFormationAssignments (for each relevant part of the CompoundTrain/Train/TrainElement)

ue71603 · 2023-04-14T13:14:48Z

A TrainComponent can contain only one TrainElement.
Split in Ham IC from Berlin (has two ServiceJourney at the beginning).
Norman: Could be on ServiceSection to save data?
Matthias: There may cases where the formation changes but no ServiceSection change (e.g. direct carriage).

Technically simple, the explanation of the usage more difficult. We need a chapter on VehicleFeatureRef in OJP.

trurlurl · 2023-05-24T09:03:19Z

OJP/OJP_JourneySupport.xsd

@@ -357,6 +367,9 @@
 		</xs:annotation>
 		<xs:sequence>
 			<xs:group ref="ServiceTimeGroup"/>
+			<xs:element ref="siri:ArrivalFormationAssignment" minOccurs="0"/>


Is the cardinality correct? DepartureFormationAssignment needs maxOccurs="unbounded".

yes.. there might be more than one.

trurlurl · 2023-05-24T09:05:52Z

OJP/OJP_JourneySupport.xsd

@@ -357,6 +367,9 @@
 		</xs:annotation>
 		<xs:sequence>
 			<xs:group ref="ServiceTimeGroup"/>
+			<xs:element ref="siri:ArrivalFormationAssignment" minOccurs="0"/>
+			<!-- comes with SIRI 2.1 -->
+			<!-- TODO the quays should be moved here, too -->


Is this comment needed/useful?

I think for following up (when updating to SIRI 2.1 it is)

ue71603 added enhancement New feature or request documentation breaking labels Mar 3, 2023

ue71603 added this to the v2.0 milestone Mar 3, 2023

ue71603 requested review from skinkie, Aurige, sgrossberndt, herlitze, normanoffel and JonaVBB March 3, 2023 20:38

ue71603 mentioned this pull request Mar 13, 2023

Add formation information to OJP2.0 #269

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ue71603 force-pushed the formation branch from db201eb to 8aef1e4 Compare March 16, 2023 19:28

ue71603 changed the title ~~first draft of the inclusion of formations~~ Siri formation in full in OJP 2.0 Apr 4, 2023

trurlurl mentioned this pull request Apr 25, 2023

Update CHANGELOG.md #309

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ue71603 and others added 6 commits May 24, 2023 10:02

first draft of the inclusion of formations

1d21c22

Technically simple, the explanation of the usage more difficult. We need a chapter on VehicleFeatureRef in OJP.

examples (not fully thought out)

b6be3d3

removing comments

de9f4a6

Update OJP_JourneySupport.xsd

c044d32

Lint and update documentation tables

8cea661

so that stop/vehicle interaction really can be modeled

84e5b3e

ue71603 dismissed stale reviews from skinkie, normanoffel, and herlitze via 84e5b3e May 24, 2023 08:03

ue71603 force-pushed the formation branch from efa729f to 84e5b3e Compare May 24, 2023 08:03

ue71603 and others added 2 commits May 24, 2023 10:10

validation corrected

ec3c114

Lint and update documentation tables

65fcd2d

skinkie approved these changes May 24, 2023

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herlitze approved these changes May 24, 2023

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skinkie merged commit 6f4323d into changes_for_v1.1 May 24, 2023

skinkie deleted the formation branch May 24, 2023 09:05

trurlurl reviewed May 24, 2023

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trurlurl mentioned this pull request Jun 10, 2023

Cardinality of ArrivalFormationAssignment #367

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trurlurl added doc updated and removed documentation labels Jun 10, 2023

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Siri formation in full in OJP 2.0 #328

Siri formation in full in OJP 2.0 #328

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Siri formation in full in OJP 2.0 #328

Siri formation in full in OJP 2.0 #328

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